Volunteering

Mar 16, 2008 at 11:43 PM
HI,
how can I be involved in the development of QS ?
Thanks
Mat
Mar 17, 2008 at 12:14 AM
All you have to do it ask. I can add you as a developer.
Mar 17, 2008 at 12:47 AM
So I officially ask "
Pleaase pleaaase can I join ?"
My best skills are in .NET C# (8 years experience), Database, Winforms, Webforms, Architecture&Design documents/Multi-threading/Remoting/Networking, and recently XNA :p
"
I'd like to be involved in anything related to your new framework v19+
Mar 17, 2008 at 1:16 AM
Oh yeah, I probably should have mentioned in my post that I added you to the developer list. :) Oops...

Has C#/.NET been around for 8 years? I thought it came out in '02. I could be mistaken, I hadn't really looked at it seriously until last year. I'm a C++ guy, myself.
Mar 17, 2008 at 1:24 AM
Thanks !

nono .net beta 1 came in early 2000 as far as I remember
I did my first enterprise distributed app SOA on Webservices querying SQLServer's OLAP cubes back in 2001 (or was it 2000) using .NET 1.0 beta 2
Mar 17, 2008 at 1:29 AM
Good to know. I didn't think it had been around for that long. I remember some people I used to work with playing around with .NET 1.1 back in '04, but I didn't look at it myself until XNA came along.
Mar 17, 2008 at 1:34 AM
Edited Mar 17, 2008 at 1:39 AM
I had doubts on my own history (lol) and looked on wikipedia, which says :
" Microsoft started development on the .NET Framework in the late 1990s, originally under the name of Next Generation Windows Services (NGWS). By late 2000, the first beta versions of .NET 1.0 were being released."

:p

Mar 17, 2008 at 1:43 AM
Wow, that would have been a lame name. :)
Mar 17, 2008 at 1:53 AM
Lol, looks like they build up a proper marketing department just before .NET 1.0 betas hehehe
Mar 25, 2008 at 2:35 PM
Hello shawmishrak,

I am a developer with about 7yrs exp in .Net C# ... Do you still need any more volunteers ? Happy to help

... btw I am working on a Game project with clertem
Mar 25, 2008 at 3:04 PM
Yes, we can definitely use more volunteers! Are there any specific areas of the engine you would like to work with?
Mar 25, 2008 at 4:53 PM
Edited Mar 25, 2008 at 5:00 PM
Hey Shawmishrak,

that would be a good time for me to join already :)

That would also help me to boost my experience in XNA.
I got 1 year C# experience, and I'd like to join your team as a developer :)

My favourite areas are:
- Tools programming (Editor, Engine)
- The Ease of Use of the Engine

Clearly spoken, I'd like to "edit the Editor" and it's code to make it more user-friendly.
Also make the Engine Code user-friendly and easy to work with.

Can I join? :) Would be a pleasure.

Only with Graphics (Shader, HLSL) I can't get into (yet). Too complicated. But I think my points pointed out above are good enough to join here :)

Would make me lucky ;)

EDIT: Thinking about it (again), I think I can code any other points, too. Not only restricted to Tools programming etc., I mean I can (at least try) coding other stuff in your engine. I surely won't destroy anything, of course. At least I'm that experienced ;) if you understand... :)
Mar 25, 2008 at 8:06 PM
A group of developers for the editor would definitely be nice to have, though our focus is definitely on the core engine at the moment.

For now, feel free to participate in discussions (and create your own, if necessary!). There's a probable move to another web host coming up soon, so we're not going to assign new coding tasks until the source tree is moved and the tasks are created on whatever bug/issue tracker is available with the new host. I have yet to actually see any code for what's been done so far regarding an editor, so feel free to give your thoughts on how you want the editor to look, and how it should interact with the core engine.
Mar 25, 2008 at 9:16 PM
Hi, thanks for the add :)

As for the editor, i have my kinda-"vision" of it in mind and would be glad to build my editor and share it with all of you :)

Though there is some things that still keep confusing me all the time, depending the
Editor-"guys". Who is now working on it?

Because that is so confusing, (I guess) adibeiro first worked on it then another guy overdid it and now... wtf!

It's not that I'm mad but I just can't resolve the confusion! Until then, I'd say I work the editor out and put it on the SVN so you can see my efforts, ok?

Sorry, but the thing with the Editor team must be resolved, otherwise it prevents us from getting things clear.

As a summary, I'd say I work on the editor, upload it on SVN and then the editor team can work on it and improve it.

I'll open a discussion thread for the editor team roster.

(I hope my post wasn't even more confusing ;) )
Mar 25, 2008 at 11:43 PM

i have my kinda-"vision" of it in mind and would be glad to build my editor and share it with all of you :)
What do you think of doing that in team instead, sharing your design ideas here on the forums with the coordinators, and then we'll setup a nice sprintline to code that tool.

Who is now working on it?
Well that's a good question, I am still waiting for the answer.
We should probably setup a team work the designer. I'm ok to join :)
adibeiro sure and Mikelid I think? but without any sign from them, I guess we'll have to start from scratch.

I guess too that we'd better build the designer based on / for the latest message-based version of QS (v19+)


Until then, I'd say I work the editor out and put it on the SVN so you can see my efforts, ok?
hold on mate, let's see what design you've got before jumping in the code; the editor can becom huge and I don't thing we should skip a proper design step.

I'd say I work on the editor, upload it on SVN and then the editor team can work on it and improve it.
well if you wish to upload your code I guess it is up to the coordinators to accept or not, but that'll be nice to go on a short design discussions first.
Mar 26, 2008 at 2:14 AM


shawmishrak wrote:
Yes, we can definitely use more volunteers! Are there any specific areas of the engine you would like to work with?


Thanks ... I am interested in the Networking / MultiThreading area ... Also I would like to work with enabling VoiceChat

I am currently working on the Client - Server component of my project ... I am using System.Net and Threading at the moment ...
Mar 26, 2008 at 1:51 PM
Mikelid109 was the network programmer, but I haven't heard from him in months. He started to write some interfaces, but I think that's as far as he got.

Ideally, I'd like to have a System.Net communication layer for Windows, and a Live communication layer for Windows/Xbox. Voice chat may be a problem with System.Net as I do not believe we have programmatic access to the headset audio buffers. With Live, this is done for us.
Mar 26, 2008 at 2:25 PM
Ankur worked on the client and server components already for our game , and I haven't heard yet that we were planning of setting up the server component (which I think should be non xna based).

Ankur can you describe what you've done already to shaw and see if we can integrate this into QS ?

About the server program, how far should we go ? just provide classes to be used on the server side ?
Mar 26, 2008 at 2:35 PM
That's an interesting question. A lot of the answer depends on the type of game you're developing, so it would be nice to provide facilities for both client/server and peer-to-peer games. Also, on the Xbox side of things, you cannot have a separate server. If you write a client/server game, one of the clients has to double as the server. So in a lot of ways its easier to do peer-to-peer on Xbox and Windows Live.
Mar 27, 2008 at 2:05 AM
Edited Mar 27, 2008 at 2:06 AM
The multiplayer functionality is indeed a bit complex.

In terms of architecture, we need to have :

- 1 server-side application (which also potentially hosts the Database)
- x windows clients + y XBOX clients

The server application manages user sessions, logging/auditing, characters (positions, states, inventories, storage, interactions), chat, client updates. Thus, it requires the support of a database.
Depending on game types, the information stored in the database will be variable in complexity and amount.
We have started the work on this with Ankur for our rpg, and we think of a design similar to the QS as messages-based .

Should QS embedd a proper server component ? If so, I think we are well placed to develop this one.

Considering the complexity of peer-to-peer networking, I'd rather put it aside for the moment.
Mar 27, 2008 at 2:19 AM
Whoa now, you're talking about an MORPG system. That's definitely outside of our initial scope! Besides, how are you going to mix Windows and Xbox clients using a separate server app? Support for this would come later, as a custom network layer beyond what the basic engine would provide.

Initially, we need to allow 2-8ish players to connect and play a game together. No persistent state across game sessions, just connect, play, and disconnect.

Mar 27, 2008 at 3:56 AM


shawmishrak wrote:
Ideally, I'd like to have a System.Net communication layer for Windows, and a Live communication layer for Windows/Xbox. Voice chat may be a problem with System.Net as I do not believe we have programmatic access to the headset audio buffers. With Live, this is done for us.


System.Net for Windows is perfect ... I probably need to investigate more on Live Communication for Xbox ... As far as Voice chat goes its probably not mission critical for windows right now, I can spend some time later on to see if it is possible with or without System.Net...



clertem wrote:
About the server program, how far should we go ? just provide classes to be used on the server side ?


Basically i have used TcpClient & TcpListener classes in System.Net and Threading to create asynchronous communication between Server & clients ... I haven't applied any restriction on the number of clients, but from the QS Engine point of view this would be configurable ...



shawmishrak wrote:
That's an interesting question. A lot of the answer depends on the type of game you're developing, so it would be nice to provide facilities for both client/server and peer-to-peer games. Also, on the Xbox side of things, you cannot have a separate server. If you write a client/server game, one of the clients has to double as the server. So in a lot of ways its easier to do peer-to-peer on Xbox and Windows Live.


Well, QS Engine is basically a framework, so ideally it should support both client/server and peer-to-peer ... the decision to use either in a game would be upto the game designer who is using the QS Engine ... As far as Xbox goes I need to find more info on what's possible or not ...



clertem wrote:
The server application manages user sessions, logging/auditing, characters (positions, states, inventories, storage, interactions), chat, client updates. Thus, it requires the support of a database.
Depending on game types, the information stored in the database will be variable in complexity and amount.

Should QS embedd a proper server component ?


Mat, I think at the moment QS Engine needs to expose some Classes that can handle Client/Server & Peer-to-Peer communication and these Classes will be used by the Game Builder(the guy who builds games) to create either a Client/Server or a Peer-to-Peer Game ... I don't think QS will ever embed a Server Application as this is the job of the Game Builder ... Once this initial work is done we can add Classes which will help the Game Builder in logging/auditing, chating etc ...
Mar 27, 2008 at 4:00 AM
I understand