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QSE_ED (QuickStartEngine Editor) Dev Team Roster / Guidelines, Roadmap

Mar 25, 2008 at 9:24 PM
So, I thought as one of my first "official acts" as a developer (thanks to Shawmishrak who made me one :) ), I'll resolve the 'unclearness' of the Editor.

I think, that not I'm the only one who develops it, as that wouldn't be so good in terms of style 100%, because > 2 persons see and think more than just one person ;)

What I mean by this is, I need to know who is working with me on that Editor, to ease development and speed things up.

Devs
1. That would be me
2. Adribeiro/clertem

Just ask if you want to participate, oh and:

- @ XNASorcerer / Adribeiro: What's up with your editor project?
- @ clertem: Are you working on Adribeiro's editor, too?

I just thought we could throw all our "editors" together / mix the best parts of all together and simplify the usage, that would be my thoughts.
Of course I got own ideas, too, but first I want to resolve these 'problems'.

Thanks for reading. I hope we can get the Editor serious! :)
Mar 25, 2008 at 11:50 PM
Yep I'm in the paaarrrrty (quoted from Madagascar's lemur king)
I haven't seen a piece of adribeiro's editor yet
XNASorcerer is not working on the editor anymore, not enough time

I just thought we could throw all our "editors" together / mix the best parts of all together and simplify the usage
hu ho nono, we should throw our ideas together first here and on a small design paper, so we propertly do things in a clean manner.

Please do share your ideas.

My first idea is that to have a performant GUI the editor should mix .NET winforms and XNA code.
Q1: Can we use XNA classes within a winform project
if yes, then superb ! if not then we can still have the views as XNAgame talkin to the winform app via a network port. InterprocessCommunication via networking.


Mar 25, 2008 at 11:52 PM
or should we build it as an XNA game project only, based on the QS and build UI controls at the same time which would mean we'd save time also on the QS project itself as those controls where planned for later versions ?
Mar 25, 2008 at 11:57 PM
The XNA Framework is just a class library. There's nothing special about it. You can bind a GraphicsDevice to a Panel, or really any Form. Look at the WinForms Samples on the XNA Creator's Club website.

I would suggest working out the desired GUI and coding that while the rest of us work on the core engine. Then, we can work on integration.
Mar 26, 2008 at 12:13 AM
Edited Mar 26, 2008 at 12:21 AM
superb.

so, chris can you put some gui draft pics somewhere so we can have a look at your ideas ?

Would this editor be the one already planned for v21 "External Game Editor" ?
Mar 26, 2008 at 12:22 AM
Yes.
Mar 26, 2008 at 11:11 AM
@ All:

Yes, I meant "throw our ideas together", not editors, sorry for the misunderstanding ;)

Anyway I think we should post the Guidelines of what we want here, or create a special Document on SVN where everyone can add his ideas and others check if they are do-able or wanted at all.
My favourite Idea would be a Plugin System, which would be great, and also a scripting system, for which we utilize CodeDOM (which is very easy to use for scripts!).

I'd be glad to make up the Document.

@ Clertem:

I did various GUI controls yet, e.g. an IP text box, an IntelliSense Control.

If you tell me ideas of which controls we could need, I can do them. Well, maybe not all, but I try hard at least ;)
Mar 26, 2008 at 11:25 AM
Edited Mar 26, 2008 at 3:25 PM
Alright, I opened up my Editor and thought these ideas could come in handy:

- Utilization of "WeifenLUO's Docking Suite" instead of having to code an own solution (which could take weeks if not even months!)
- Plugin System for the Editors (e.g. each Editor in it's own DLL). <-- I'd do that for easy extension and modifying of the editors
- Custom GUI Controls
- Make it working with ANY QSE version since Revision 1.9 <-- I'd say this is important for not having to do one editor for each revision

I thought these could be the guidelines or the roadmap. Feel free to add points as you want :)
Mar 26, 2008 at 2:31 PM
I think that the editor should be editing scenes for v19 and above only, not backward.
Mar 26, 2008 at 3:22 PM
I never told anything else :)

"Make it working with ANY QSE version since Revision 1.9" basically means that ;)
Mar 26, 2008 at 4:51 PM
I would rather tie the editor version to the engine version. Making one editor version that is backwards compatible with all engine versions seems like a lot of effort for nothing. Instead, the editor will evolve with the engine, and the two will be packaged together. You'll have an editor/engine version 0.20, version 0.21, and so on. For every released engine version, there will be an associated editor version. If version 0.25 is the latest and someone wants to continue using 0.23, they will use the 0.23 editor.
Mar 26, 2008 at 5:44 PM
Again, i never said my editor would be backward-compatible!

"Since" means v1.9 and up, not down. Got it? :)

But ok, a "new" editor for each new version is also right, I will do.
Mar 26, 2008 at 6:55 PM
It doesn't have to be a new editor for each version, just an updated editor to reflect the engine changes.
Mar 27, 2008 at 1:53 AM
"Since" means v1.9 and up, not down. Got it? :)
Now yes, I'm not a native english speaker, sorry.

Chris, Is your code already in the source here or do you wait for the move to SVN ?
If not, can you send it to me by email plz ?
Mar 27, 2008 at 5:06 PM
Edited Mar 27, 2008 at 5:32 PM

It doesn't have to be a new editor for each version, just an updated editor to reflect the engine changes.


Basically I meant the same. So with updated etc.

Oh this word-chaos ;)


clertem wrote:
"Since" means v1.9 and up, not down. Got it? :)
Now yes, I'm not a native english speaker, sorry.

Chris, Is your code already in the source here or do you wait for the move to SVN ?
If not, can you send it to me by email plz ?


Sorry, I didn't want to be confusing :)

As for the code, I still want to know if I can finally start working on the Editor as well. Can I? Until the End of this week (should be Sun-30-Mar-2008), I could upload a (not really working, but conceptional) Editor with controls etc. From then on, I'll start real coding when most of you agree.

EDIT: When you read this, I have started moving the source to the SVN, but yet NOT commited it. Basically simply means that I have started working on the Editor.

EDIT: Oh and just for info, I was making an editor a while ago, and some features of mine are now in this, and vice-versa. Though it's no copycat, the editor is special for QSE.
Mar 27, 2008 at 6:08 PM
Sounds good. Feel free to use whatever you want in the engine, even if it is copy and paste, as long as the application of the code fits, and we're not copying anything that isn't open-source.
Mar 27, 2008 at 8:04 PM

LordIkon wrote:
Sounds good. Feel free to use whatever you want in the engine, even if it is copy and paste, as long as the application of the code fits, and we're not copying anything that isn't open-source.


Sounds even better on my side :)

Alright, I started working :)
Mar 27, 2008 at 8:23 PM
I wouldn't advise pulling code off the Internet and just copying it into the project. You won't learn anything like that, and then no-one on the project will know the purpose of the code. And if your code is influenced by anything you find on the Internet, be sure to note that in the comments. It's just the ethical thing to do.

This isn't a derogatory response to anything anyone has said here, just a heads up.
Mar 28, 2008 at 6:24 PM
I agree, I guess copy and paste isn't the best idea. Usually you may want to use techniques found in other code, rather than just the code itself.
Mar 29, 2008 at 8:55 AM
I would never copy/paste anyway, since I did most code back then when I had (compared to now) little experience, and for these code parts I now know a better solution ;) So no, I won't copypaste :
;)
Mar 30, 2008 at 8:04 PM
Unfortunately, I can't hold my time :(

School sucks up most of my time, hences the progress on the editor is (compared) slow.
I fear that I can't release it before next friday, is that ok?

I hope yes, because I couldn't work on QSE_Ed since this Wednesday...

Still working on it, though. You'll get it for sure :)

Thanks for your patience :)
Mar 30, 2008 at 8:33 PM
That's perfectly fine. The editor is a huge project, and this is just a hobby for all of us.
Apr 1, 2008 at 7:33 PM
ATTENTION!

I noticed some things which I stumbled upon when making the editor based totally on plugins (external dlls), some I think in particular are:
  • It's lot of work, and unfortunately I don't have that many time now (laerning for school, practising bass guitar)
  • After all, it is hard for beginners to understand it.
  • Also (I have noticed) it can be a bug-nest sometimes. Also it is hard (if we need to cross-transfer data between "plugins") to do so.

After all, I'll let the possibility open for that, but for now I think it is easier and faster, and more reliable after all to not utilize a plugin system.

Feel free to share your ideas about this one.
Apr 1, 2008 at 8:31 PM
A plug-in architecture is really only valuable for tools, not so much for the base editor.
Apr 1, 2008 at 11:51 PM
Chris, did you have a look at Castle Windsor Container , and Inversion of Control / Dependency Injection principles ?

They're perfect for implementing an pluggable application.
Apr 3, 2008 at 3:30 AM
Chris,

can you confirm that the editor will be built on top of QS (at least for drawing in the view window pane) ?

I'd prefer referencing the QS library rather than copyying bits of it into the editor's code.

That point is important, we need to be able to plug-in a new version of the QS library in the editor's bin folder and see how it copes with it, without having to re-code the editor.

Thanks
Mat
Apr 3, 2008 at 1:14 PM
Edited Apr 3, 2008 at 3:35 PM
Well in the first place I meant the Plugins for the Editors, not the Editor itself. E.g. I wanted my menuscreen designer as an editor (plugin) but now instead I directly code it into the editor you know. That eases the use of anything. The Editor itself will be built on top of QS, of course.

It's just school sucks up my time. But hey, can I commit it on SVN or do you want to wait for some reason? Just asking.
Apr 3, 2008 at 7:31 PM
Alright, I now have finished basic implementations of MDI Interface. That means, you can arrange the Tools windows as you want, hide them, close them etc. just like you know from Visual Studio for example. Took me a bit of work, 2 hours to complete and happy the basics are working now :)

Now I just have to optimize the code, because it is a bit of a mess right now (well you know how it is when you implement something and then you see the mess) ;)
Cleaning up is not a problem. I might commit it to SVN if it lets me (moans about password and username)...
Apr 3, 2008 at 8:40 PM
Try not to commit anything to our repository until we get SVN set up at another host. Then you can create your own branch and commit whatever you want.

If you want to show us something, just zip it up and upload it as a patch.
Apr 3, 2008 at 11:46 PM
Please send further posts to this thread on the new forums :
http://xnaquickstart.freeforums.org/dev-team-roster-guidelines-roadmap-t6.html